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2023 Trend Watch: 4 Changes Every HR Professional Needs to Plan For

By OpenComp


With today’s competitive talent market, oscillating economy, and tight-fisted investment landscape, businesses have a high bar to climb in 2023 — and HR will be at the center of it all… responsible for increasing retention, morale, and performance to new heights, while cutting costs. In this episode we talk to Nancy Connery, Emily Sweet and Thanh Nguyen about the four major trends they predict will separate industry leaders and laggards, and how HR leaders can prepare to guide their businesses to be on the winning side.

Emily is the VP of Social Impact at OpenComp and lead executive for OPEN Imperative. Thanh Nguyen is the Founder and CEO of OpenComp. And Nancy Connery we all know… cofounder of OpenComp and Principal Connery Consulting, and I’m sure highest on her priority list, cohost of High Growth Matters.

Join us as we discuss the four main trends for 2023:

  • Developing compensation IQ will be the most requested skill training
  • VCs will demand pay progress from their portfolio companies
  • One-time rewards and alternative benefits will rise in popularity
  • The Dobbs decision will have unexpected effects

Resources mentioned:



CAITLIN ALLEN: Hi, everyone. This is Caitlin Allen, VP of Marketing at open comp. And your only host today on another episode of the high growth matters podcast. This is the third time I've done this introduction because my CEO is on the podcast with me today. So we're gonna blame him for that. But regardless, really excited to talk about the four changes that every HR professional needs to plan for in 2023. I'm gonna do some quick intros because you'll you'll get to know the guests backgrounds here in the first couple questions. We have Emily sweet, the VP of social impact at open comp on the line and lead executive of open imperative, as well as Tang when the founder and CEO of open comp and the reason that I stutter. And Nancy Connery we all know, the co founder of open comp and principal of Conrad consulting, and I'm sure highest on her priority list. The other usual co host of high growth matters. So everyone, welcome. You go way back in time in terms of relationships. So let's dive into that first. Emily, let's start with you. When did you intend first meet?

EMILY SWEET: Yes. Well, hi Caitlin, Thanh. And I go we do we go way, way back. We met in college. Actually, we are both at Washington University in St. Louis together. And Tang actually was from the same hometown as my roommate. So we met really early on freshman year. So yes, we go way back, we also spent those first kind of soul crushing professional years living in Chicago at the same time, so we got to know each other, you know, really well during that period do?

CAITLIN ALLEN: Yeah, we all have those stories. Nancy, what about you? When did you and Tang meet?

NANCY CONNERY: So Tang and I met back in the very early Salesforce days, he was actually my first HR hire around 2000. And he was hired on as I think about somewhere in the 30 to 35 number employees. So that's about if my math is correct about 20 to 23 years ago.

CAITLIN ALLEN: And you guys know each other kind of well at this point, right?

NANCY CONNERY: Yeah, you know, we've been the let's see, we're together at it. Salesforce and HR launched Connery consulting and now open comm. 

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CAITLIN ALLEN: Thanh, that's a lot of bad blood that could potentially come into this podcast, I'm just gonna say,

THANH NGUYEN: Oh, well, I'm honored because, you know, all you smart ladies here have really elevated my career and more importantly, have put me quite frankly, where I'm at today. But I will say with Nancy, she's one of the few people aside from my wife that has told me to sit down, shut up and get to work. So it's one of those type of relationships and you know, I'm happy to do that. I'm happy to do that with each and every one of you. So for me, it's it's really a Troy a joy to be on this call.

CAITLIN ALLEN: I love it. I'm really excited to dive in. So we always ask guests one question. Should when they first joined to get to know them a little bit personally, which is asking what is something that most of their co workers don't know about them? Today? We're flipping the script a bit to ask you 10 We'll start with you. So Tang, what are some what is something that most of Emily's co workers don't know about her?

THANH NGUYEN: I was actually Emily's wing man. When she met Jake, her husband.

CAITLIN ALLEN: That is not something many people can say. Okay, so then Thanh. What about Nancy? What do most people not know about her?

THANH NGUYEN: Oh, man. Look, I think we go too far and too deep. I'm going to put on this one and maybe come back to you later.

CAITLIN ALLEN: That works. Alright, so Emily, now now Thanh is in the hot seat. And Nancy, you're going to be up next wanting to what are what are some things that you know about tang that some of us might not know?

EMILY SWEET: Okay, well, I'll stick with the theme that that Tang raise. And I'll just say he's not always the most reliable wing man. So I will just I will just leave it there. Nancy, what about you?

NANCY CONNERY: I'm gonna say two things. He averages about five to eight minutes late for every single meeting. So don't don't take offense if he does that to you. And you oftentimes have to text him to remind him but you know, we just have a nice rhythm around that is the first thing and the second thing is is that in the early Salesforce days, he you know, it was we definitely had our moments of stress and strain. And one day he tried to quit and he told me Enough is enough. And I'm going to move to Costa Rica and I'm going to open up a surf shop. And I told him to sit the you know what down since we're keeping this at PG rating, and that he needed to just do his job and keep his mouth shut. And he did and here we are today. 

CAITLIN ALLEN: He's still trying to get there.

THANH NGUYEN: To open up that surf shop one day,

CAITLIN ALLEN: I'll come visit. Alright, great. Well, let's let's get into the meat of this. Then. So y'all met a while ago. Fast forward a few years and see and Thanh, you've co founded two companies together and Emily, you and I now work at One of them, in our prep call about what's going on is 2022 approaches 2023, we distill predictions down into four major trends. And so we're gonna, we're gonna dive into those. And the first is that improving or developing compensation IQ, the term we've come up with, is going to be the most in demand skill training that employees and managers asked for. And so, Tim, let's start with you. Can you tell us about like what that prediction involves?

THANH NGUYEN: Yeah, I think at its core, employees are expecting more transparency and more knowledge and more information around compensation, around how they're paid around the structures of performance as relates to their pay. And, you know, if you don't have a clear message, a clear strategy or understanding of how you built your organization, and how you're going to support your employees, I think you're going to struggle, because that is there. And obviously, we see it now more than ever in tech. But trust me, it's going to be there in other industries. You know, despite the macro economics today of of how the economy sets, there will be our cycles of of talent. Wars again, and the needs and the wants of the talent are going to be much different than what we've seen in years past.

CAITLIN ALLEN: I think that's really well said, I was reflecting on this this morning, actually, like, we are so used to data as humans, right, we get data about how we sleep and how many calories we eat, based upon the food we have, we would never buy anything from a grocery store or even or like a software technology without knowing the price without knowing the information. And so I think it's natural that that trend, that expectation is now coming into an area that affects every decision we make in our daily lives, right, whether it's on the company side or the employee side. And I also think your point about managers is a really good one, because those are the folks that employees come to with questions, which I know we'll get into here in a bit. Nancy, what would you what would you say, your clients on the culinary side are doing right now to get ahead of this trend?

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NANCY CONNERY: Yeah, you know, I think we've seen an interesting shift where compensation and compensation planning used to be a little bit of an afterthought. And now it can't be an afterthought, especially in particularly with a lot of the pay transparency laws that have recently evolved in, you know, in our industry, and just across all industries. So you know, it's no longer an afterthought. It's about doing it and doing it right, really, from the beginning, you know, arming your managers with the education and tools to successfully speak to and plan for compensation and philosophy all at the same time. And also your employees in general as well. You know, and so I think we've we've come a long way. And I think that also helps, you know, our charter at at open comp as well, because that's exactly what we do.

CAITLIN ALLEN: Yeah. And you mentioned trait patrons, parently laws, which are partially fueling today's focus on developing what we're calling compensation, IQ, whether it's related to pay equity, or the transparency side. And Emily, I know this is something you care passionately about know a lot about. Can you tell us what's going on today and how important it is for employers to be prepared?

EMILY SWEET: Yeah, of course, you know, as we predicted, this last year, or this current year 2022, has really been a big year on the pay transparency legislation front. And we really are starting to hit a tipping point right now. You know, just for some quick context, it's important to call out that we're almost 60 years removed from the passage of the Equal Pay Act, and yet women are still making on average only 82 cents to the dollar as the average white male. And this ongoing pay gap really has real consequences on the daily lives and economic security of women who collectively lose out on a combined total of nearly $1.6 trillion every year. And these pay transparency laws are working to correct this and a few a few key ways. So the first are laws that prohibit employers from asking a candidate about their previous salary history. And those laws are on the books in 21 states and in 21 municipalities. The second are laws that require employers to inform candidates or their current employees about the salary range of the position that they are applying for. And we're seeing this in places like Maryland and Connecticut and Rhode Island where the laws that are on the books state that employers have to provide this information only if asked by candidates. So this is really sort of a upon request kind of situation. However, the trend that we're seeing, we're really starting to see more of is what's been happening in California and Washington, Colorado and New York City, where employers are required to proactively include this information in all job postings. And these are really the sort of laws that we project will continue to pick up more steam in the coming year. And then finally, the third area where we're seeing some really early traction are laws that require employers to provide pay data reports for their employees by gender, and race and ethnicity. And looking at that across salary, bands and job categories. And the first of these kinds of laws are actually going to get started to be implemented next year and 2023 for employers with 100 or more employees in California, and Illinois. So this is a new trend that we really anticipate we'll continue to see more progressing and gain traction on as well. I would just say each of these laws has its own nuance in terms of number of employees, and how it ultimately is implemented. So we've put together a legislation tracker on the open comp website, so both can go over there and really get a sense of what the legislation and regulations are for your jurisdiction.

CAITLIN ALLEN: And I can I can also add, folks, for those who are listening in, make sure that I'll make sure that is included in our show notes. So there's a link below for you.

EMILY SWEET: Great, great. And then I think Caitlyn, you would ask, you know, how do employers prepare? Is that right? 

CAITLIN ALLEN: Yeah, let's cover that too, if you don't mind. So I know. That's something that it's a common question. We hear from HR leadership, and just from CEOs like this is a new thing. This is an important thing. Even if pay laws aren't coming in my state, I want to be ready. But you know, compensation is not something that a lot of us are experts in Present company excepted. Like how how do they prepare? How do they get ready?

EMILY SWEET: Yeah, well, first, it's critically important, as you just said that employers prepare and even those employers who are located in states where the laws have yet to be passed, because they apply to remote worlds and workers as well. So few just several reasons, to really incentivize companies to get ready. The first, you know, just really stating the obvious one, that there are really hefty fines attached to these laws. So in California, for example, non compliance can cost employers $100 to $10,000 per violation. And in New York City, these fees can balloon upwards of $250,000 per violation. So this could get costly for organizations very, very quickly.

CAITLIN ALLEN: I'm going to stop there for a second. Yeah, when so because I just want to do this math together out loud. 1000 per violation, or 250,000 per violation, that's per job post that doesn't have a salary range, right. So in theory, if someone had a company had 10, job posts that were non compliant, that'd be $100,000 of a fine. Yes. That's on the scale quickly, that yes,

EMILY SWEET: yes, I think that's going to be an incentive for a lot of companies to get to get it together. But in addition to the fines, you know, these laws are also going to have a direct impact on employee recruitment, or candidate recruitment and employee retention. So, you know, for candidates, they really are going to be looking for these ranges. And we know that younger professionals in particular value trade, pay transparency. And there's been a ton of research that's been put out recently. And that also shows that a majority of employees have indicated that they would switch companies and go to a more transparent employer, even for the same wage. So

THANH NGUYEN: recently, and it was 63% of the talent model that said, they would prefer transparency in their companies. Yeah, there you have it.

EMILY SWEET: Absolutely. And I think with these laws as well, you know, people have been really focused on the posting of the pay ranges, and really thinking about sort of the candidate facing experience. But it's also important to prepare, because it's not just the candidates who are going to start seeing your pay ranges, but your current employees are going to see them as well. And as we can appreciate this could create a whole set of issues if you've not yet communicated with your team about their their specific pay ranges and your company company's overall comp philosophy. So you know, those conversations are really critically important. And then I would just go ahead

CAITLIN ALLEN: I know, that's something that you're seeing a lot right now, too, that companies are not thinking about or not doing. Why do you think that is?

THANH NGUYEN: Well, I think, look, the the task at hand people a lot of operators have to deal with is really kind of the reporting aspect. And, you know, people are very quick to solve their issues that they need to check off their list. I mean, I've been an operator for many years, right? Especially at Salesforce where the task mount Every minute, every hour every day, right, and the reality is, for me, most HR comp professionals, you're kind of at a debit as relates to resources time and, and to do everything. So they're really tactically trying to move through this and rightfully so because they have to clear and it is a big and onerous task to ask somebody to kind of complete this and, and complete the ranges, even if you don't have your comp, philosophy, etc, what are they going to try to do, they're going to try to move to solve the job postings and the hiring that they have to do. So they're going to take the path of least resistance. The issue with that is, and the other side of this coin that we talked about is, you know, that that is directed at attracting new new talent into your organization, the reality is, you've got an existing talent pool that you have to manage, and they're going to look at that same posting, and and just make a quick assessment on am I there? Or am I not? Why is this company, you know, advertising roles for the same thing that I do? Is, that's my perception at 20 to 30k, possibly more than I make today. That's a big issue. And, and we know, the challenges right now is around retention, and optimization, and, and keeping our best employees at this point. And, you know, right now, I see that side by side. And I think, you know, companies need to be really thoughtful and make the investment in delivering the appropriate salary bands and salary ranges in their organization, because it is not as simple as taking some market data and saying, I'm gonna put a maximum and minimum spread on that market data, because that's not a a, you know, established compensation philosophy, that's just taking external market data and applying some bookings to it. Right.

CAITLIN ALLEN: Yeah, very well said. And I do want to talk about the difference between actual pay ranges and market based pay ranges and a second, Emily, I had interrupted you. So maybe we can go back to I think you had one more thing you were going to share?

EMILY SWEET: Oh, you know, the only other thing I was just going to say is that there's also, you know, there's a ton of research that shows the jobs that include salary information outperform those that don't, and they end up costing, you know, significantly less per application. So, you know, there's a lot of there's a lot of incentives, you know, in addition to the fees and fines that that companies need to be looking at, you know, just to build on to Tim's point about the importance of communicating with current employees about their pay ranges and your comp philosophy, it's also really important for companies to assess where their current employees fall within any newly established ranges that they make and make those adjustments, you know, quickly and effectively, to get folks up to speed and up to par with, with what they're going to be putting out into the market. So, you know, that's another kind of pre planning step that companies need to take at the onset.

THANH NGUYEN: Yeah, it's not learn from what New York is doing. Just like I think a lot of companies have tripped up, we've already seen it in the headlines, right, with these ranges that are 2 million in spread, I think was some some of the readings that, that that that I saw it, there systems involved, there's, there's a lot to this. And the good faith, my prediction, and we're talking about predictions here is going to go away, it's no longer going to be a good faith. I mean, this is the first step into really more stringent or really focus rules that you're going to have to provide and do within your organization to protect and to guard against, you know, bias and, and pay disparity in the states that we're talking about, especially in California, right. So,

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CAITLIN ALLEN: you know, one one player in this ecosystem, we've talked a lot about employees. We've talked a lot about employers in the ecosystem as it relates to companies. Investors also play an important role. And so Nancy and Tang, I'd love to understand, you know, what you're seeing and what your predictions are, for what, whether investors, whether it's public boards, or whether it's like VCs for private companies, what is their role going to be in ensuring pay parity, ensuring pay transparency and what's what key motivators do they have in that, that future that we predict?

THANH NGUYEN: Yeah, I think, look, regulation has a big piece in this, in my opinion, it's right, it's in the air, I mean, public companies are going to have to report. Now, obviously, at a state level, and specific cities like New York, they're gonna have to, to not only comply with these laws, I think, at the end of the day, when you're making an investment, and you're an investor, and you sit on the board of these companies, and the managing these poor coasts, all of that has to play a big part on how you guide responsibly for founders and leaders. And the reality is most of the investment in in these companies are investment in the founders and the leaders, right. And when you think about the technology profile of founders and leaders, a lot of them haven't had deep, professional experience in the real workforce scaling, working operationally dealing with humans at scale. And that's so critical, right. And this is what this is all about. These pay laws are about protecting and helping humans in a way that is progressive to our communities. Right. And I think when you layer that with what you have to do, and have to be accountable for as a, as an investor, it's just going to all tie together, right? I think we have to, you know, help leaders, such as myself, kind of figure this out and comply with the rules and regulations. And the reality is, I'm fortunate enough to be in this and have all these years of experience. And I'm a late what I would consider a late founder CEO, right. But, you know, if I look at my counterparts, and a lot of the folks that are sitting in my role today, they just don't have the luxury and experience and the network to help them through this. And that's why you see a lot of the challenges and the problems that you see in startup organizations.

NANCY CONNERY: Yeah, and I think just to piggyback on that, you know, the investors and VCs really have a responsibility to help guide their founders, and to help them understand the importance of the evolution of compensation, and the importance of getting it right. And then the, you know, front and center, the, you know, the legal aspects of it, as well.

CAITLIN ALLEN: Very much agreed. And the the theme I hear you both talking about is the the responsibility aspect, and also the aspect of measurement. And so maybe as we close out this prediction, Emily, can you talk to us about how companies can and should measure pay equity in their organizations? Yeah,

EMILY SWEET: it's really important, you know, we really recommend that companies conduct regular pay audits across the organization. And this really is one of the most important steps that that companies can take to address pay inequity. You know, we always say you can't manage what you don't measure. And while it can be easy to keep putting this type of work off, you know, when you identify pay gaps early, and course correct them in real time, companies can save themselves a lot of pain and money in the long run. So unfortunately, we know that very few organizations conduct regular pay equity audits, and even view or look at multiple factors when they do so like race and ethnicity, gender, education and years of experience. So to do this work, right, we really want to look at your company overall, as well as by job levels, specific roles and departments to see if there are clear areas of discrepancy. And for those companies that have you know, have salary or pay bands recently established, it's also really good to review where your employees fall within those pay bands, by demographics as well. And, you know, again, this is something ideally companies do on a regular and quarterly basis, because every new hire or employee exit shifts this this balance. You know, we've found that a lot of companies want to do this work, but they don't necessarily know how to get started. And so one of the benefits that we've been putting together through open comp is actually through a new coalition that we created this past year called Open imperative, which stands for organizations for pay equity. Now, it's a coalition of high growth companies over 300 At this point, who are committed to closing the pay gaps within their organizations and implementing best practices and companies get access to a free and confidential pay equity report as part of their membership benefits. So anyone interested in that listening? Check us out, open It's my shameless plug for this incredible coalition that we've been building.

CAITLIN ALLEN: Those are allowed, and the link will also be in the show notes. So we've talked about two of the predictions. One is that compensation IQ is going to be a hot topic, it's going to be a thing. The second is that VCs are going to make moves to take responsible roles and demanding pay progress from their portfolio companies. And then the third is around how today's economic uncertainty is showing up in the choices that HR leaders are going to make and are already making. And we're our prediction is that that economic uncertainty is going to make things like bonuses, whether it's spot or hiring bonuses, alternative perks, and learning and development more popular. So Nancy, could you talk to us about that one, please?

NANCY CONNERY: Sure. I think, you know, there are a couple of avenues here to look at, you know, number one, if you look at Caitlin, what you the various perks and one time payouts that you reference, those are just that they're one time, you know, versus a recurring salary increase. So, you know, I think that you're going to see employers focus more on, you know, how can we we reward and retain our employees at the same time while also being very responsible to what's going on in the economic climate out there. And so you know, things like spot bonuses, alternative perks, adding some l&d budget, those are one time costs that can really go a long way. So you know, to toggle those up and down beneficiary to everybody on both sides of the equation equation, whether it's the employer or the employee. You know, there's also as Tang just referenced, you know, there is a big movement right now around retaining your current employees. And we all know that when you lose an employee and you have to rehire in somebody new into the role, there are a lot of hidden costs associated with that. So during no uncertain economic times, you really want to do whatever you can to retain and develop your top performers. These are all avenues that can be used to do just that.

CAITLIN ALLEN: What, in terms of alternative perks in this, I guess, is a question for you, Nancy, and and maybe anyone else on the line, I see things like four day workweeks a lot in headlines, but I'm not sure that I see that a lot in practice, at least among my peers set? What are your thoughts around alternative perks like that? And what are other alternative perks that we see in today's market that HR leaders are using to sweeten the deal to encourage retention?

NANCY CONNERY: Yeah, you know, over the last decade or so, we've seen a lot of alternative parks, and those can be things like, hey, come to work for us, and you get three free meals a day, you know, done by a chef, you have dry cleaning, you have yoga, you know, those might be things of the past, given kind of the times that we're in, and responsibly likely things of the past, you know, but to your point, offering a flexible work schedule, whether it, whether it's that you want to work, you know, more hours on certain days and consolidate your work week, flexible and practice in terms of some days on site, some days at home are all remote. And those are all, you know, considered alternative perks. And so you know, to whatever the degree is that you can do things in today's day and age that, you know, work well within the company's financial constraints, but at the same time, add to the quality of life of your employees, that is going to be a win win situation and, you know, post COVID times there's been a very big push to be, you know, a lot more aware of kind of the, you know, the balance the work life balance, and the, you know, mental and physical health of your employees. And so alternative perks that also speak to things like that go a long way as well, whether it's, you know, supplementing health club memberships, you know, providing benefits should they need and stipends, should they, you know, want to do cut some kind of different medical, holistic type things, you know, but there's a lot of creative things that you can do in today's day and age that really speak to the evolution that we've seen in the workplace.

CAITLIN ALLEN: Thank you. So rounding out with our fourth prediction, the fourth prediction is that we expect that employers are going to feel the effects of jobs in a very big way. So Emily, why do we expect that and what are we recommending that HR leaders do about it?

EMILY SWEET: Yeah, I mean, Caitlin, this is one of our 2023 predictions that I think is safe to say was on very few people's radar at the start of this year. But the overturning of Roe v Wade, this past summer has really catapulted this issue and to the public's consciousness, you know, we just are coming off the midterm elections and and saw how it was obviously top of mind for voters, but you know, workplaces are feeling that effect and impact as well. I think when the ruling first came down over the summer in June, at first glance, employers might have asked themselves you know, what is what is overturning Roe v Wade have to do with us? It's not really a workplace issue. And I think they've, you know, kind of stood corrected pretty quickly. And it has a lot to do with them. You know, to start we saw, you know, we saw this with CO Ovid, that public health issues or workplace issues, and restricting access to reproductive health care is a public health crisis in this country. We know that, you know, one in four women of childbearing age has had an abortion, and many more women have suffered miscarriages that often require a therapeutic abortion to protect their health. So we know upfront just from the get go, that this is an issue that is, you know, has and will continue to impact your people. So HR leaders need to really understand that. Right now, there are 40 million women of reproductive age, that's 56% of us who live in states that have moved to severely cut access to abortion care. And the dabbs decision has left many workplaces scrambling to review their current reproductive health care offerings and benefits. And companies have been looking into things you know, some of these alternative benefits, you know, Nancy was alluding to look a little different, but it's things like providing relocation benefits, travel reimbursements, extra paid sick time off, you know, all really working to be mindful of employee privacy, and to stay abreast on the shifting legal landscape that that's happening in our country right now. So it's become a very big issue. And we anticipate that more states will move to pass restrictions in the coming year. Because this is really ever evolving. You know, for HR professionals, I want to just highlight another resource, Caitlin, you can put this also in the link afterwards. But it's the pro repro playbook that was produced over the summer by our partner gender ideal, which is a really excellent free tool that gives employers guidance in developing and implementing reproductive health care benefits for their employees and family members. So just want to make sure to really flag that. But in addition to the benefits, you know, there's a couple other ways that that workplaces and employers are feeling the impact. And part of that is around their ability to attract and retain talent. So similarly, around, you know, we're seeing kind of values alignment, interest for, for job seekers, and, you know, around pay transparency, but it's also in play, you know, playing out around abortion access, as well. And it really does matter for employees and for candidates about whether a company has taken a public position on this issue or implemented some new employee benefits offerings. And I really do see this will be a differentiator, and that companies that put in protections will ultimately be rewarded. You know, there's been a couple, just one quick stat that I think is really important to call out. But there's been a ton of recent polling, you know, over the last several months, that shows that a majority of workers would not accept or seek a job and a state that has recently passed an abortion ban. And 34% of younger workers have said that they might ultimately switch jobs due to a company's stance on abortion. So they're sort of the like practical tactical issues, and then really, from, you know, kind of like a broader scale philosophy and some kind of social values perspective, companies are going to need to take note.

CAITLIN ALLEN: Thanks for breaking it out that way to it, I think the practical tactical is an important point. And the stats you shared really underscores some of the the issue here. Ting, I'm gonna put you on the spot didn't prep you for this question. But I don't think we've ever gotten a record as a company about what our stance is, but I know that you felt passionately enough to make a policy at our company around after this, this change was made. Why was that? And you know, maybe what guiding principles led you to make that choice that other HR leaders or CEOs can use as reference points as they're figuring out what to do.

THANH NGUYEN: Like, I think it's health and well being of our employees, but the end of the day, they, they they demand an ability to have their own choice. And that's the most important, and this is we're talking about health care, and we're talking about health care at the most critical levels, right. So for us, certainly for me, it was important to express that and provide that, that support to our employees. And, you know, it goes back, as we said, you know, whether it's data, whether it's information, the talent, the employees want something different in the future, they want more, they want more ethics, they want more accountability from their employers, right? With all this great technology, all of this opportunity. It has advanced the employee, right. And I think that's amazing. That's where we want to go. That's what has enabled us to be more effective to deliver and use technology deliver better Live better information flows. On the flip side, there are we're seeing challenges socially around that and you And in our communities and everything else, but, you know, this is the, the parody, that that that we live in, right. And, you know, certainly for us as a company, who is all about, you know, empowering this data, empowering not only the efficiency and helping people do their jobs better, smarter, faster, but at the end of the day, we're delivering what we believe is mission critical, in terms of, of, you know, reducing the bias or reducing the discrimination. This is the data that's needed at the point of action, in terms of what businesses need to perform, you know, business actions that that help their company and help their employees ultimately.

CAITLIN ALLEN: Yeah, I think I really like what you said in terms of work plays a different role in our lives today than I think it has historically. And it's going to play a different one moving forward. And that's especially particular, especially relevant or accurate for millennials and younger generations, as they come into the workforce. I remember the day that you announced the our policy, you know, in all hands, and I am pretty sure I saw about a dozen women cry. And they don't usually see that at all hands is also usually a positive thing. But it was a very fusing moment where you could just see that it meant a lot to people. So it is on us to take those stances businesses. And to get off my my platform because I need to wrap this up. And we end with the same question for all guests as well. And we'll go in alphabetical order here. I think so Emily, Nancy, and then 10, you can bring us home? What is one rapid, rapid fire piece of advice that you each would give our listeners based on what we've discussed today? Like if they took action on one thing, you each have said, What would you ask them to select?

EMILY SWEET: I mean, I think for me, it's just planning, right? being really intentional and communicating your intentions with your team. I think it's just it's really critical. And it's that basic.

NANCY CONNERY: For me, it would be you know, make sure that you stop as an employer and you think your top performers and your employees, you know, they're doing more with less. And so just it doesn't go it's not that hard to just stop, and thank them and provide them with positive feedback.

THANH NGUYEN: Yeah, like I've been saying this, we were getting back to kind of the fundamental core of, of, you know, running businesses kind of operating in, in the right way, I think, you know, we've been in a Uber growth model for a long time. And this is a kind of more business oriented, but we've been in an Uber growth model for a long time. And we've done really weird, gimmicky, gimmicky stuff, as employers as employees, and let's just get back to the fundamentals of what drives us. What makes us happy doing what we do? What are the core things that we expect, and we want as good human beings on both the corporate side and the employee side? And I think that is a forcing function of what's happening in the macro economy and the market. Right, we're getting back to fundamentals of what how to operate, right? What is good, what am I going to prioritize? Is it that that $20 Avi toast and, and, and milk latte that I can get at work, or I enjoy what I do with my employees, and there's mission behind what we do and what we're going to deliver.

CAITLIN ALLEN: Well, we're definitely gonna have to do a podcast a year from now to see how right and wrong we were. Thank you all for for being here, and for the great conversation.


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